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Ideas not scriptural/religious

 

    This page contains the content of four e-mail messages between myself and an individual named Stephen.  I've created this page for somewhat the same reason I created the Challenged page.  Where the Challenged page contains accusations that my views depart too far from the secular norm, this page contains accusations that my views depart too far from contemporary religious Christian norms.  On both pages my goal is to help the accusers see that their views which they believe to be clear and obvious are in fact incomplete and nebulous.  After they accept this I know they will search for answers.

From: "Stephen ..."
To: glen@timeenoughforlove.org
Subject: Ideas not scriptural
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:24:21 -0700
Hello Glen,

I stumbled across your website and noticed the bible verses you quoted... Glen, the information you've presented and the ideas you offer are not of GOD and certainly not scriptural.

Remember Glen, if you are not representing GOD, you're representing (who?)...

-Stephen
 

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:12:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Glen" <glen@timeenoughforlove.org
Subject: Re: Ideas not scriptural
To: "Stephen..."

Hello Stephen,

Thank you for your concern, I believe you mean well. However, I also believe you have neither a rational nor scriptural basis to support your accusations.

In all likelihood your perception of my work is a product of religious indoctrination coupled with your own temperamental viewpoint.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=daniel+12:8-10&KJV_version=yes&language=english
Daniel 12:8-10 :: King James Version (KJV)
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/15/us.saudi.religious.rights.ap/index.html
U.S. criticizes Saudi religious freedoms
Wednesday, September 15, 2004
The report also said that those who do not adhere to the officially sanctioned strain of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia can face "severe repercussions" at the hands of the religious police.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/jeff1080.htm
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush (September 23, 1800)
"I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. ... I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. ...had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro' the U.S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript201_full.html
NOW, January 3, 2003
MOYERS: I did an interview a number of years ago with your colleague, the scholar of religion Elaine Pagels I think some of you know her. And she said there's practically no religion I know of that sees other people in a way that affirms the other's choice. That is the nature of religion, is it not, not to affirm the other's choice. If my truth is true, can your truth be true?

"I believe in the fundamental truth of all great religions of the world. I believe that they are all God-given and I believe that they were necessary for the people to who these religions were revealed. And I believe that if only we could all of us read the scriptures of the different faiths from the standpoint of the followers of these faiths, we should find that they were at the bottom all one and were all helpful to one another."
- Mohandas K. Ghandi
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557044686
 


Most likely you are a “child of Seth”, perhaps a child of Jabal? Do you know?

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=ISA+65&language=english&version=KJV
Isaiah 65:1
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: ...

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Genesis+4:20-26&KJV_version=yes&language=english&x=19&y=8 
Genesis 4:20-26 :: King James Version (KJV)
4:020 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. (Guardian)
4:021 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. (Artisan)
4:022 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. (Rational)
4:026 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. (Idealist)

http://www.tri-network.com/articles/essentialqualities.html
The Four Temperament Patterns
GUARDIAN – Concrete/Affiliative
Membership or Belonging Responsibility or Duty
LOGISTICAL – Organizing, Facilitating, Checking and Supporting

ARTISAN – Concrete/Pragmatic
Freedom to Act Ability to Make an Impact
TACTICAL – Actions, Composing, Producing, and Motivating

RATIONAL – Abstract/Pragmatic
Mastery and Self-Control Knowledge and Competence
STRATEGIC – Engineering, Conceptualizing, Theorizing, and Coordinating

IDEALIST – Abstract/Affiliative
Meaning and Significance Unique Identity
DIPLOMATIC: Clarifying, Unifying, Individualizing, and Inspiring
 

I hope that you will continue to read and critique my work. But in doing so do not be surprised if you learn more about, yourself.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
The Gospel of Thomas
3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

"In light of knowledge attained, the happy achievement seems almost a matter of course, and any intelligent student can grasp it without too much trouble. But the years of anxious searching in the dark, with their intense longing, their alterations of confidence and exhaustion and the final emergence into the light -- only those who have experienced it can understand it."
- Albert Einstein
http://www.quoteworld.org/browse.php?thetext=achiev,accomplish&page=5

"It is because we have at the present moment everybody claiming the right of conscience without going through any discipline whatsoever that there is so much untruth being delivered to a bewildered world."
- Mohandas K. Ghandi
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1557044686/

http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/Jihad.html
Jihad, the subject of the "documentary," is not even defined. We are not told that jihad has many definitions, that in general it means struggle, and that the highest form of jihad is the struggle against self.

- Thousands -
One may conquer a million men in a single battle;
However, the greatest and best warrior
Conquers himself.
Conquest of one's self is the greatest victory of all…
- The Dhammapada (The Path of Truth) translated by Ananda Maitreya
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0938077872

http://www.zoroaster.net/indexe.htm
The Basis of Zarathusta’s Teachings - Dr. Bahram Varza
“In Zarathustra’s philosophy, everybody has the liberty to choose the right way, out of his/her good reflection and since human wisdom is more related to good reflection, thus the followers of Zoroastrianism should precede by each other to the propagation of science and education. In this manner, Zoroastrianism becomes the forerunner of knowledge and enlightenment.”

http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/tl12.shtml
THE TRIUNE BRAIN
“In order to increase your control over your emotions, it is helpful to understand emotions from the viewpoint of a brain specialist. This will help you to understand the origins of our emotions and why we have them. The advantage of this is the same of any type of self-knowledge: the more you become aware of the mechanical or automatic aspects of yourself, the more you are able to increase your control over them.”

“Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power

If you realize that you have enough,
you are truly rich.
If you stay in the center
and embrace death with your whole heart,
you will endure forever.”
- Lao-tzu , Tao-te ching “The Book of the Way and Its Power”
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060812451

“Furthermore, we have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time has gone before us. The labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god. And where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves. Where we had thought to travel outward, we will come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we will be with all the world.”
- Joseph Campbell, The Hero With a Thousand Faces
http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/creator.html
 

 

From: "Stephen ..."
To: "Glen"
glen@timeenoughforlove.org
Subject: Re: Ideas not scriptural
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:59:30 -0700

Hello Glen,

Sorry I haven't responded quickly. I haven't had access to the computer.
But, If we can continue correspondence on this matter, I will try to respond in a timely fashion.

I appreciate your honesty and forthrightness. I hope i didn't offend  you with my initial candid response. It was my opinion that when you were quoting scripture that you were representing GOD. Is this the case?

You wrote;
"I hope that you will continue to read and critique my work. "

Glen, Is scripture your work?

You also wrote:
"But in doing so do not be surprised if you learn more about, yourself"

This sounds like humanism to me? Do you believe that GOD wants us to learn more about OURSELVES?

Let's just take one a few lines from someone that you quoted in our last correspondence and see if they are in fact scriptural, because, after all,
that's what God commands us to do: You quoted:

If my truth is true, can your truth be true?
>
> "I believe in the fundamental truth of all great
> religions of the world. I believe that they are all
> God-given and I believe that they were necessary for
> the people to who these religions were revealed. And
> I believe that if only we could all of us read the
> scriptures of the different faiths from the standpoint
> of the followers of these faiths, we should find that
> they were at the bottom all one and were all helpful
> to one another."
- Mohandas K. Ghandi

God Says however;

1 Timothy 2:3-6
"who desires all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth, for there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Wouldn't you agree that God's word is contradictory to Ghandi's word in this manner?
Who then are you willing to believe, Glen? God says that there is "one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." Does
Judaism (for example) support this basic belief? Certainly not!

The devil would like us to believe, Glen, that there are many roads that take us to the same destination. But what does Jesus say?

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, No one comes to the Father except through Me."

and further,

Mathew 7:14
"narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"

So, Glen, if Jesus says the way is "narrow", and "few will find it", does it sounds like all religions are God sent? Do all religions send you
along the way which leadeth unto life?

Glen, I'm not opposed to believing you. But, as you can surely respect, I need to validate the source of information.

Since your role is that of a teacher and it is apparent that you seek to help me "learn", I suppose that you can comfortably explain the
"elementary principles of Christ" Hebrews 6:1-2?

Please read Hebrews 5:12 - 6:3 KJV regarding the milk of the word. According to GOD. These principles are elementary. I would like to be confident that you understand these before we pursue a "solid food" doctrine.

Your feedback is appreciated.
Stephen

 

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Glen" <glen@timeenoughforlove.org >
Subject: Re: Ideas not scriptural
To: "Stephen..."

Hello Glen,

Hello Stephen.


Sorry I haven't responded quickly. I haven't had access to the computer. But, If we can continue correspondence on this matter, I will try to respond in a timely fashion.

I appreciate your honesty and forthrightness. I hope i didn't offend you with my initial candid response. It was my opinion that when you were quoting scripture that you were representing GOD. Is this the case?

I represent myself. Representations of God are everywhere. Evidence for “the son of man” appears wherever chosen.


You wrote;
"I hope that you will continue to read and critique my work. "

Glen, Is scripture your work?

No, an ongoing effort to more fully understand myself, other people, this world and the universe of which we are all a part is my work. What you call “scripture” happens to exist, and I find it helpful or useful to reference it on occasion.


Glen, I'm not opposed to believing you. But, as you can surely respect, I need to validate the source of information.

Stephen, I don't want you to believe me, and I don't think you should measure the truthfulness of a statement solely on the level of respect you have for the source. I would like nothing more than for you to discover the truth for yourself. I consider telling others what to believe intellectually disrespectful and indulge in it only when I believe it will lead to even greater understanding. I believe nearly everyone has the capacity to see themselves and the world clearly (those who suffer mental illnesses would need assistance) and this is accomplished by exploration and thoughtful analysis, not by having the answers handed to you.


Since your role is that of a teacher and it is apparent that you seek to help me "learn", I suppose that you can comfortably explain the "elementary principles of Christ" Hebrews 6:1-2?

Please read Hebrews 5:12 - 6:3 KJV regarding the milk of the word. According to GOD. These principles are elementary.

Hebrews 5 :: King James Version (KJV)
12
   For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13   For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14   But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Hmm, it sounds as if the author is admonishing the Hebrews in terms they would easily recognize. I think it likely the author has found it necessary to address the conservative religious viewpoint that seemingly “new” teachings have no place in their current tradition and practice. The author wisely (or cleverly) reminds them throughout their tradition that the principle quality of “Oracles of God” is to remind the “teachers” of the essential roots or origins of their belief when they have strayed too far or forgotten them.

As for Hebrews 6:1-2 “let us go on unto perfection” please consider that perfection is an ideal we strive for yet never achieve, for the higher we climb the further we see.

I would like to be confident that you understand these before we pursue a "solid food" doctrine.

It's nice to see you using and apparently understanding metaphorical language. Here's a little more “food for thought”.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
– Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/FreeCountry_WBlum.htmlhttp://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/FreeCountry_WBlum.html

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=43
A Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law
by John Adams, second U.S. President, 1765
"By the former of these, the most refined, sublime, extensive, and astonishing constitution of policy that ever was conceived by the mind of man was framed by the Romish clergy for the aggrandizement of their own order. All the epithets I have here given to the Romish policy are just, and will be allowed to be so when it is considered, that they even persuaded mankind to believe, faithfully and undoubtingly, that God Almighty had entrusted them with the keys of heaven, whose gates they might open and close at pleasure; with a power of dispensation over all the rules and obligations of morality; with authority to license all sorts of sins and crimes; with a power of deposing princes and absolving subjects from allegiance; with a power of procuring or withholding the rain of heaven and the beams of the sun; with the management of earthquakes, pestilence, and famine; nay, with the mysterious, awful, incomprehensible power of creating out of bread and wine the flesh and blood of God himself. All these opinions they were enabled to spread and rivet among the people by reducing their minds to a state of sordid ignorance and staring timidity, and by infusing into them a religious horror of letters and knowledge. Thus was human nature chained fast for ages in a cruel, shameful, and deplorable servitude to him, and his subordinate tyrants, who, it was foretold, would exalt himself above all that was called God, and that was worshipped."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05572c.htm
Eucharist: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
The Church honors the Eucharist as one of her most exalted mysteries, since for sublimity and incomprehensibility it yields in nothing to the allied mysteries of the Trinity and Incarnation. These three mysteries constitute a wonderful triad, which causes the essential characteristic of Christianity, as a religion of mysteries far transcending the capabilities of reason, to shine forth in all its brilliance and splendor, and elevates Catholicism, the most faithful guardian and keeper of our Christian heritage, far above all pagan and non-Christian religions.

“When they lose their sense of awe,
people turn to religion.
When they no longer trust themselves,
they begin to depend upon authority.

Therefore the Master steps back
so that people won’t be confused.
He teaches without a teaching,
so that people will have nothing to learn.”
- Lao-tzu , Tao-te ching “The Book of the Way and Its Power”
A New English Version by Stephen Mitchell
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060812451

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity." "What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of "humility." This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism"
- Albert Einstein, What I Believe, 1930
http://home.earthlink.net/~johnrpenner/Articles/Einstein3.html

http://www.thenazareneway.com/lords_prayer.htm
The Prayer To Our 'Father'
"The Aramaic Language has (like the Hebrew and Arabic) different levels of meaning. The words are organized and defined by a poetical system where different meanings of every word are possible."
(in the original Aramaic)

Abwűn
"Oh Thou, from whom the breath of life comes,

d'bwaschmâja
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.

Nethkâdasch schmach
May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest.

Tętę malkuthach.
Your Heavenly Domain approaches.

Nehwę tzevjânach aikâna d'bwaschmâja af b'arha.
Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)
just as on earth (that is material and dense).

Hawvlân lachma d'sűnkanân jaomâna.
Give us bread (understanding, assistance) for our daily need,

Waschboklân chaubęn wachtahęn aikâna
daf chnân schwoken l'chaijabęn.
detach the fetters of faults that bind us, (karma)
like we let go the guilt of others.

Wela tachlân l'nesjuna
Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations),

ela patzân min bischa.
but let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose.

Metol dilachie malkutha wahaila wateschbuchta l'ahlâm almîn.
From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,
the song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.

Amęn.
Sealed in trust, faith and truth.
(I confirm with my entire being)
 


You also wrote: “But in doing so do not be surprised if you learn more about, yourself"
This sounds like humanism to me? Do you believe that GOD wants us to learn more about OURSELVES?


I believe there are tremendous advantages in searching for and gaining insight about ourselves. For only by becoming consciously aware of our unconscious thoughts, passions and drives can we most effectively gain control over them. If instead we remain ignorant of these potentially selfish, fearful and destructive impulses they are more likely to exert considerable influence on our behavior and how we treat each other.

Do you believe that you have a creator that chose for you a particular form and environment out of a possibly infinite number of forms, would for some reason not want you to understand who and what you are? Do you believe that despite having a brain with many billions of nerve cells with trillions of possible connections, the most complex system currently known, that your creator wants you to refrain from using this gift? Is that how you would raise your children?

If you do only what you are told and without thought how will you be able to distinguish a good deed from a harmful deed? In the story of Adam and Eve, was Eve's mistake made in listening to the serpent or was it in taking action before thoughtful consideration of the consequences? Where was Adams mistake? For every action there is a consequence.  The most harmful deeds are those that result in suffering for everyone.

http://bible.gospelcom.net
Matthew 5 (KJV)
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

golden rule
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/25/g0182500.html
NOUN: The biblical teaching that one should behave toward others as one would have others behave toward oneself.

http://www.zoroaster.net/indexe.htm
The Basis of Zarathusta’s Teachings - Dr. Bahram Varza
“He [Zarathusthra] was wise enough to recognize that all the motives of human beings are based on action and reaction. Because, the receiver of every good deed in this world will react accordingly with the good behavior. Therefore, in the realm of interaction, if human beings act favorably, they receive favorable reaction and vice versa. In this regard, if a person robs another one, he should not be surprised when some day he will be robbed as well.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback
Blowback is also a term used in espionage to describe unintended consequences. In context, it can also means retaliation as the result of actions you have undertaken, or revenge taken by those you have betrayed. It is believed to have been coined by the CIA. Given prior CIA support of the Islamic insurgency in Afghanistan and Osama Bin Laden, it could be argued that the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack is a monstrous case of blowback.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471265179/
All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror
Half a century ago, the United States overthrew a Middle Eastern government for the first time. The victim was Mohammad Mossadegh, the democratically elected prime minister of Iran. Although the coup seemed a success at first, today it serves as a chilling lesson about the dangers of foreign intervention.

"It is not far-fetched," Kinzer asserts in this book, "to draw a line from Operation Ajax through the Shah’s repressive regime and the Islamic Revolution to the fireballs that engulfed the World Trade Center in New York."

http://www.dawn.com/2001/11/10/top1.htm
OBL: …“America and its allies are massacring us in Palestine, Chechenya, Kashmir and Iraq. The Muslims have the right to attack America in reprisal. The Islamic Shariat says Muslims should not live in the land of the infidel for long. The Sept 11 attacks were not targeted at women and children. The real targets were America's icons of military and economic power.”

http://www.timeenoughforlove.org/saved/washingtonpost_comTopIsraeliOfficerSaysTacticsAreBackfiring.htm
Top Israeli Officer Says Tactics Are Backfiring
Friday, October 31, 2003; Page A01
JERUSALEM, Oct. 30 -- Israel's senior military commander told columnists for three leading newspapers this week that Israel's military tactics against the Palestinian population were too repressive and were fomenting explosive levels of "hatred and terrorism" that might become impossible to control.

- Twins -
Mind is the forerunner of all actions.
All deeds are led by mind, created by mind.
If one speaks or acts with a corrupt mind,
Suffering followers,
As the wheel follows the hoof of an ox pulling a cart.

Mind is the forerunner of all actions.
All deeds are led by mind, created by mind.
If one speaks or acts with a serene mind,
Happiness follows,
As surely as one’s shadow.

“He abused me, mistreated me, defeated me, robbed me.”
Harboring such thoughts keeps hatred alive.
“He abused me, mistreated me, defeated me, robbed me.”
Releasing such thoughts banishes hatred for all time.

Animosity does not eradicate animosity.
Only by loving kindness is animosity dissolved.
This law is ancient and eternal.
- The Dhammapada: The Path of Truth translated by Ananda Maitreya
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0938077872
 



Let's just take one a few lines from someone that you quoted in our last correspondence and see if they are in fact scriptural, because, after all, that's what God commands us to do: You quoted:

If my truth is true, can your
> truth be true?
>
> "I believe in the fundamental truth of all great
> religions of the world. I believe that they are all
> God-given and I believe that they were necessary for
> the people to who these religions were revealed. And
> I believe that if only we could all of us read the
> scriptures of the different faiths from the standpoint
> of the followers of these faiths, we should find that
> they were at the bottom all one and were all helpful
> to one another."
- Mohandas K. Ghandi

God Says however;
1 Timothy 2:3-6 "who desires all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth, for there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Wouldn't you agree that God's word is contradictory to Ghandi's word in this manner?


I'm sorry, are you attributing that quote to God? It appears to me that an assertion such as, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” looks like the religious assertions of a religious man. Of course you're free to believe his assertion if you like but if you do then how do you resolve the following teachings attributed to Jesus with those addressed to Timotheus by this religious man?

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+15&KJV_version=yes&language=english&x=16&y=13
Matthew 15 :(KJV)
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1TIM+2&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on
1 Timothy 2 :: King James Version (KJV)
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1TIM+2&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on
1 Timothy 2
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+6:5-8&KJV_version=yes&language=english&x=12&y=6
Matthew 6:5-8 :: King James Version (KJV)
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Which form of prayer do you think your father would respect, prayer that you perform in public so that others can see you, prayer in which you beg for assistance to fulfill you wants or needs, or prayer that entails peaceful and thoughtful contemplation? Which forms of prayer represent “milk” and which “meat”?



Who then are you willing to believe, Glen? God says that there is "one God and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." Does Judiasm (for example) support this basic belief? Certainly not!

Well, the Jewish tradition laid the foundation for and prophesized the arrival of a Savior (a.k.a. a Christ). Many of Jesus' teachings are framed within this tradition and for 2000 years there have been groups such as the first apostles to “Jews for Jesus” who believe he was their savior and they should study his teachings. I don't see how it's possible to separate Jesus the Christ from the roots of Judaism. Even if Jewish leaders are able to convince “most” Jews that Jesus was not their prophesized savior does that make it less true that he was/is?

When I made the claim on-line last year that there are many Muslims (perhaps most) that revere Jesus and attempt to follow his teachings I faced immediate condemnation with one poster claiming I had made “the stupidest post of the year”. I'm curious to hear how often you've heard a Christian religious leader teach and emphasize this peaceful and inclusive aspect of Islamic tradition. Which approach do you believe leads to greater understanding and peace, an emphasis on those things that unite us or those that divide us?

http://student.mit.edu/searchiap/iap-4469.html
Jesus, Prophet of Islam
Suheil Laher,Wed Jan 29, 2002
”How does Islam view Jesus? What Muslim scriptural texts say about his immaculate birth from the virgin Mary, his speech in the cradle, his miraculous feats in healing the sick and reviving the dead, his return near the end of time, his role as the Messiah, and his eminent rank among God's messengers.”

http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/Jihad.html
Jihad Against Islam, April 28, 1995
“We are told "most Americans understand very little about Islam." Emerson, however, only adds to the misunderstanding. We are not told that Islam is the religion based on God's message conveyed by a line of prophets including Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. We are also not told that Islam recognizes Muslims, Jews, and Christians as "People of the Book."

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/jesus/
Muslims, Islam and Christianity
”Muslims are required by Allah to believe in all the Prophets including Jesus (Isa), and John, the Baptist (Yahya), Peace be upon them. Quran has asks us to believe in all the books revealed to all the Prophets as well. The book given to Jesus is called Injeel in the Quran. Quran asks Muslims to give special position to Christians as people of the Book.”

http://www.iad.org/Islam/jesus.html
PROPHET JESUS (PBUH)
Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon Him) , and await his Second Coming. They consider him one of the greatest of God's Messengers to mankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as 'Jesus' (peace be upon Him) , but always adds the phrase 'upon him be peace'.

http://islamicbookstore.com/b2209.html
Jesus Prophet of Islam (1st Edition)
Muhammad Ataur-Rahman
”This book examines Jesus as a prophet teaching the Unity of God, and the historical collapse of Christianity as it abandoned his teaching. The author sketches the dramatic picture of the original followers of Jesus who affirmed Unity. What emerges is that "Christianity" is the fiction that replaced their truth. A work that covers the Gospel of Barnabas, the Gospel of Hermes, the Shephard, early and later Unitarian Christians, Jesus in the Gospels and in the Qur'an and Hadith. The author clearly shows the idea of Jesus as part of a Trinity was a Greek Pagan idea adopted by early Christian missionaries to gain converts among the Greek, and did not become a widely accepted Christian doctrine until after the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.”
 

The devil would like us to believe, Glen, that there are many roads that take us to the same destination. But what does Jesus say?

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, No one comes to the Father except through Me."

and further,
Mathew 7:14 "narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"

So, Glen, if Jesus says the way is "narrow", and "few will find it", does it sounds like all religions are God sent? Do all religions send you along the way which leadeth unto life?

I suppose that depends not only on what each religion represents and how they change over time, but also on what Jesus represents.

There are several possible meanings for “going through” someone are there not? You could start with the most literal and least likely, that would be actually passing through his body in some way. Or, the common colloquial meaning would suggest Jesus represents some position of authority and people cannot advance to another place without his approval. I think various religious institutions and their leaders have assumed a position of authority in line with this second interpretation. You can research for yourself throughout the history of all religious institutions what effect such an interpretation has had on both the followers and the leaders. Jesus was wise enough to never assume or accept such a position. He led in a way that to this day still confuses those trapped in the submissive/dominant hierarchical mindset.

There is however another interpretation of what Jesus the Christ represents and some of it remains within the Biblical text even when much of it was deliberately excluded because it directly challenged religious authority. And that is the truth that each individual can achieve what Jesus achieved without the instruction and guidance of religious authority.

Do you believe your creator, a being with knowledge of the entire universe cares only for and speaks to only some of his children, who speak only certain languages, living only in particular places and only at certain times? Do you believe only certain peoples desire peace and freedom?

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=JOHN+3&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on
John 3 :: King James Version (KJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/68/s0646800.html
spirit
NOUN: 1a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness.
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
5a. The part of a human associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/53/s0575300.html
soul
NOUN: 1. The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/89/m0308900.html
mind
NOUN: 1. The human consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested especially in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination.
2. The collective conscious and unconscious processes in a sentient organism that direct and influence mental and physical behavior.
3. The principle of intelligence; the spirit of consciousness regarded as an aspect of reality.


"Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people."
–Jawaharlal Nehru
http://www.heartquotes.net/Peace.html

http://dictionary.reference.com/
Zion n.
2: an imaginary place considered to be perfect or ideal [syn: Utopia, Zion]
3. The heavenly Jerusalem; heaven.

Shan·gri-la n.
1. An imaginary remote paradise on earth; utopia.
2. A distant and secluded hideaway, usually of great beauty and peacefulness.

Prom·ised Land n.
The land of Canaan, promised by the Lord to Abraham's descendants in the Bible.
promised land A longed-for place where complete satisfaction and happiness will be achieved.

nir·va·na n.
1. often Nirvana
a. Buddhism. The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion.
b. Hinduism. Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment.
2. An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy.

nirvana n
1: (Hinduism and Buddhism) the beatitude that transcends the cycle of reincarnation; characterized by the extinction of desire and individual consciousness
2: any place of complete bliss and delight and peace [syn: eden, paradise, heaven, promised land, Shangri-la]

mec·ca n.
A goal to which adherents of a religious faith or practice fervently aspire.

heav·en n.
1. The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. Often used in the plural.
Christianity.
a. often Heaven The abode of God, the angels, and the souls of those who are granted salvation.
b. An eternal state of communion with God; everlasting bliss.
2.Any of the places in or beyond the sky conceived of as domains of divine beings in various religions.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

“You must be the change you wish to see in the world.”
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi
 

Your feedback is appreciated.
Stephen


Peace,
Glen

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